September 21, 2007

48. Emery Killian says...

For over half of my years of ministry (37) I have been associated with a denomination that does have women clergy and for the past 23 years of ministry I have worked with a ministerial association that also consists of women clergy. This is in a small rural town. It has been my experience that cases but 1 or two, the women clergy seem to go about their ministry with a chip on their shoulder. When I asked someone who was serving as my mentor at the time (23 years ago) if I was imaging things his response was,"it was that way in seminary." I'm not sure if my experience is unique or that most of these women are divorced and this is a second career is a factor. Maybe the same thing would be true of men with the same background. To be fair, I always wondered why my former church background would accept women as missionaries but not as local pastor's. It is a confusing matter.

September 18, 2007

47. James McDonald says...

Actually, my wife had a new book coming out that will also address this issue, but from the other perspective. Watch for "Passionate Housewives, Desperate for God" at a bookstore near you this fall! Rev. James McDonald, Providence Church, Peoria, IL - familyreformation.wordpress.com

September 18, 2007

46. Kenneth Richardson says...

Iam glad someone has the guts to address the controversy, thanks.

September 18, 2007

45. Nancy Sacry says...

Excellent article, our denomination has had women in leadership roles for over years now. The body has not diminished because of it, as some have asserted in their comments that where women lead, men go else where. We have not found that to be true. It is now really a "non-issue" because most feel it has enhanced and balanced spiritual growth with in the body. As with any group, there are gifted leaders male and female, and those who's leadership could be more effective. If we truly believe in the bible as the inerrant word then we would all be sinners, as we do not follow every line and precept the bible presents to us. I really doubt that when Paul was writing counsel to the various church bodies he was thinking that one day every word of those "letters" would be viewed as the word of God. I consider Paul's writings God inspired, but I see Paul, a mighty MAN of God in those writings too. I did not seek the position of pastor, just as Paul did not seek his apostleship, God called me to prepare for it even before I knew what it was I was perparing for.

September 18, 2007

44. Gregory lenz says...

More grist for the mill. Huldah was a prophetess (2 Kings 22; 2 Chronicles 34). In the new covenant, God promised through the prophet Joel, "Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy." (Acts 2:18) Among the spiritual gifts are "prophesying" and "leadership" which are available to "anyone" (as the Greek reads in Romans 12:6-8). Prophecy means basically to speak the word of God to others. If a woman is not to teach or usurp authority over a man (1 Timothy 2:12), when does a boy become a man? Maybe we should not major in minors by muzzling fifty percent of the Christian community from using their gifts to communicate the message of salvation in Christ to a dying world regardless of how the church defines its ministry. Thanks for the free forum!

September 18, 2007

43. Ernest Bernet says...

Dr. Strauss makes some good points about how we treat each other in the church; and we all would do well to hear those. However, I disagree with a number of the teaching points. I will summarize by starting with two very important distinctions. First, the real question at hand needs to stay "theo-logical" (not "anthropo-centric"). Second, context clears up the use of certain Bible verses--namely, we need to determine whether the context is speaking in terms of sanctification or justification (more on this later). These two distinctions are very important in this discussion. The first distinction is to keep the discussion "theo-logical" rather than "anthropo-centric." Our human observations about what some believe men and women are better at or simply observing women in these roles don't really answer the question at hand. The question here is NOT are women ABLE (by gifts and talents) to do the job but SHOULD women do those jobs--i.e., is it God-pleasing according to Scripture? Everyone certainly has an opinion on the ability of women in these roles; and many words have been shared in that regard. But let's be honest with each other... That isn't really the question here. Also, we can only determine the “should” and “God-pleasing” factor by Scripture, not by how one might “feel called” by God, nor even by sympathetic appeals to a “universally loving God.” Those issues have their own merits in other discussions. Here we need to focus-in on what God’s Word actually says, which is always the hardest thing we ever do! Our natural tendency is to read it to justify our own opinions. However, when we come to Scripture and realize that it is saying something different than what our culture is saying, I suggest we work to adjust culture to Scripture rather than the other way around. Otherwise, the church loses its prophetic voice; and the "salt loses its saltiness." Having settled that (at least in our own minds for ourselves), we simply leave alone all the anthropocentric arguments and move to the theological ones. Here’s where I need to deal with the second important distinction in the discussion—namely, is the context justification (who is saved; who goes to heaven) or sanctification (how do we live this life; how do we relate to one another)? For me, most of this confusion is cleared up by distinguishing the main verses from their contexts. Galatians 3:28, for example, is the main verse used by the "egalitarians." It is important to note that the context there is justification not sanctification. This might seem an unimportant distinction to some, but the fact remains: When I come to Scripture, am I honestly trying to hear what God is saying through His Word, or am I just trying to justify my own opinion? If I am honest about hearing God in His Word, then I must take the verses in context. After all, "Context is the key to understanding." This means that Paul is simply saying here that women too will be saved, women too will go to heaven, women too are heirs of Christ. Now if you want to talk about sanctification--how we live this Christian life together and how we relate to each other in our respective callings--well, then we have the other verses to look at, and now hopefully we can read them honestly in their own contexts for what they actually do say, and say quite clearly, without having to "explain away" the clear meaning of the texts in order to "make it say" what we think it should say. In the church and in the Christian life, confusion is par for the course. May God’s Spirit continue to keep us humble, keep us seeking God’s Truth in the Word, keep us tolerant and loving of each other, and keep us in loving discussion with each other! Blessings and peace in Christ our Lord!

September 18, 2007

42. Edward Hyndman says...

An interesting article. You mention some books on the detail of the argument rather than getting into the details. Yet we will have to deal with the text details to get to agreement. Rather than assuming the arguments are all out there, we need to continue with the close examination of the arguments, for there is something we are missing somewhere here. The responses so far seem to accept that 1 Tim does say that "a woman" should not teach or hold authority over "a man". Yet as I read the passage the question of a marriage relationship strikes me again and again. Adam and Eve are the creative order of marriage; for this very reason a man will leave his family..., and the apposition of "gune" and "andros", and the very suggestion of children and childbirth along with the peculiar word used for authority, etc. I would plead for a continuing examination of the text and command itself.

September 18, 2007

41. Charles Lloyd says...

While there are good points on both sides of this arguement (and for the record, my views tend to closely align with Mark's). the one thing that we have to remember is that in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, Paul says "I don't permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man". He didn't say "God doesn't permit...", or "It is wrong for ..." It was Paul's personal conviction. I firmly believe that the Holy Bible was written with divine guidance. And since the God I subscribe to is all-seeing, all-knowing, and all powerful, if the words should have been "By God's authority, a woman shall not...", then they would have been. These are the thoughts God gave to me. Pray for an interpretation and see what He reveals to you. Grace and peace!

September 17, 2007

40. Rev.John Miller says...

Rev. John W. Miller writes.. I AM ALWAYS AMAZED AND SOME WHAT DISCUSSED ABOUT THE TOPIC OF WOMAN IN LEADERSHIP. I BELIEVE THAT WOMAN AS MUCH AS MEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS. I SAY THIS BECAUSE ON SUNDAY MORNING AT LEAST IN MY CONGREGATION THE MAJORITY IN ATTENDANCE ARE WOMAN. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHURCH AT WHOLE YOU WILL FIND THIS TO BE THE CASE. WHEN WILL THE PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH WAKE UP? IT IS NOT ABOUT US BUT ABOUT THE SAVING GRACE OF THE RISEN CHRIST. WHEN WILL WE STOP TRYING TO "PUT WOMAN IN THEIR PLACE" DOES NOT THE SCRIPTURE'S SPEAK OF THEIR IS NEITHER GREEK OR JEW NOR MALE OR FEMALE BUT ALL AARE ONE IN CHRIST. YES THERE IS A POSITION IN THE CHURCH AND JESUS CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH. NOT ANY MAN OR WOMAN BUT CHRIST ALONE. SO GIVE OUR SISTERS RESPECT AND TREAT THEM AS CHRIST TREATS US, WITH LOVE, GRACE AND MERCY.

September 17, 2007

39. James McDonald says...

Many good words have been shared here. I am not sure mine will add much to the mix. I will state that I am ever troubled when a portion of the Word of God is deemed to be merely situational. Additionally, I am troubled when one is complementarian because men and women seem to be different. To me, these are red flags. Either we believe the Bible, or we do not. Quite simply, the basis for biblical complementarianism is found in the Garden before the Fall. There was no culture, no traditions, no situations. God established polity there and has built upon it in His church and in the home. This is not to say women are less valuable or gifted than men. For from it! But it is to say God has established order, and it is imperative that we all submit to His prescript, not ours nor the society in which we live. Grace and peace, Rev James McDonald Providence Church Peoria, IL familyreformation.wordpress.com

September 17, 2007

38. Dan Lightfoot says...

I have an affinity for Mark's article but would take exception to the 'situational' tag that seems to be attached to this subject. The cloak and books (for example)that Paul wanted Timothy to bring are obviously personal requests and not doctrinal or spiritual precepts. The discussion of women in leadership, however, is a spiritual principle to be dealt with. Note Paul's 3 points in I Corinthians 14 that remove the subject from 'situational' status... 14:33 - "As in all the churches of the saints." 14:34 - "As also the law says." 14:37 - "The things I write are the Lord's commandment."

September 17, 2007

37. Warren Lamb says...

Paul was a wise and learned man and he had the direct guidance of God the Holy Spirit when he penned all of these words that are being quoted. If we walk away from the last forty years of the blurring of the spheres and look at the Scripture as it is written, Paul states a SPIRITUAL not a SOCIALOGICAL reason for women not being in leadership over men in the church. Very clear, very simple. And, as several very wise and learned men of the cloth have stated for many, many years, "The main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things." The passage referenced in 1 Timothy could not be plainer. It is only SOCIALOGICAL concerns that make this passage appear to be vague. Oh, yeah - the idea that because something is only mentioned once that it is meerly situational is preposterous and down-right foolish, poor exegetical practice. Women have specific gifting by the Holy Spirit just as men do. The only question that is to be answered is, "How are these to be used in the body?" Paul is also very specific when he details the administering by women of their spiritual gifts. Read the rest of the letter to Timothy. Try to do so without the SOCIOLOGICAL bent of femenism. When I was young, most of the leadership in the church was women. As I grew toward manhood, it seemed evident to me that church was for women and children, not for men. Men got their spiritual feeding some other way. It was only after being away a long time and discovering solid, godly men in the church that I was even interested in thinking about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Had there still been predominantly women in leadership in the church, I would have walked away again. Paul knew what he was taling about because he got it direct from the source. To the women who are currently in positions as pastors of churches I say you are brave for doing so on many levels. My prayer is that you will honestly and earnestly seek the Lord on this issue specifically without an agenda. If your heart burns to teach, then teach - just do so as the Scriptures allow. Teach in Christian schools, teach in Christian colleges, even teach in seminaries. The Sacred Desk, however, is supposed to be filled by men. If the men are missing, pray that God will kindle a fire in their souls to step up and be the men they were created to be. One day, when we all get to heaven, we are going to kow which position really is correct. If we take our stand with living in obedience in mind instead of what seems permissible, I think we will fair much better on every issue that we disagree on. May God make His will known to us all. Wherever we stand on this issue, let us be in prayer for the lost and for those who are still prisoners of the Enemy. That, afterall, is to be our first prioroty.

September 17, 2007

36. Todd Ritchie says...

No place in Scripture do you have a woman as a Priest or Pastoring a church. The Priesthood was always reserved for a Levite Male in the Old Testament. The is the Archetype for a Modern day Preacher or Pastor or Evangelist or Apostle. The one area I believe woman can be used in scripturally is as a teacher. Out of the 5 fold ministry that is the only position I see women being used as in the Old and New Testaments. If we are going to form a Doctrine over this, we should use the Bible as our guide. For it is God's word and not the opnions of men or women! With that said, those who hold object to women in the pulpit have strong cause to do so and are justified by God's word. There is a difference in the sexes. Like it or not God gives the Man the right to lead his home and as Priest/Pastor. The woman is to submit to his authority and take her place along side of him. With that said a wise man will see his wife as a counselor to him and use her advice, criticism, or what ever she may have to say to him to better his ministry, family, and the work of the Lord! It is modern day issues that have pushed the womens movement to the front. The problem with justified issues like women having the right to vote is this: One of the main women pushing for women to have the right to vote during World War 1 after the vote, regretted ever pushing for it and here is why. She was a praying Christian lady and she saw those ladies who where unchristian pork barrel their agenda on to the right to vote for women. She was ashamed at what she had done because of what was added. Just look at the feminism movement and you will see her embarassment. It is tragic that something as right as a woman's right to vote would be in question by men only to latter have a movement that hates men evolve out of it. Men like ladies are sometimes not the smartest thing on planet Earth. Look at what the feminists have done so far: They cut their hair after WW1 (bobbing) because men who came back wanted them to look like the prostitutes they visited in Paris, they put on men's clothes in WW2 to help out the nation win the war, but then fought a battle to dress like men thru the 1950's, 1960's, and by the 1970's men didn't even care (God's word says Women should not put on things that pertain to a man). Any real men want to put on dresses? Didn't think so, but we think nothing to women putting on mens pants and call them femine. In the 1920's thru the speak easies women began to drink (prior to that women could not go into a bar, remember the Temperance Societies and the women who started them?). And in the 1960's/1970's thru the rebellion over the veitnam war women entered into the sexual revolution which brings us to where we are to day,in a losing battle to stop Homosexuality from becoming legal in this nation. When it does become legal, mark this Preachers word, God will take swift action in bringing America down to it's knees (first financial, then thru a series of judgements that will spank every America good and hard). Even now the Judgements are being sprinkle and God is judging his house (look at Katrina, floods, drought, earthquakes, those in Church having their sin found out, the housing market bust, the upcoming financial bust of the U.S. Dollar, and the wars we are in). And don't forget the diseases, how many children have various diseases today compared to 50 years ago? Have you checked the numbers? They are up thru the roof! But, will the nation repent and turn away from their sin? No, they shake their fist at God and blame everything they can, but it is never their fault! How deceived they are! Where are the Hell Fire and Brimestone preachers like the Wesley's, or any of the 1700's, 1800's, up to WW1? It is time to stop tinkling ears and preach the word of God, unadulterated! This world is not our home and it sure is not our friend, and if we are only passing thru, it behoves us to preach it with power and authority and tell people flat out where they stand! That is the only thing that will cause revival in this nation, when the people see their sin and are forced into doing something about it! So you want to be a free thinker and say women can do this or that? Let me give you a clue about the one who wrote the Bible! He was never a free thinker, he is Omniscent, that means all discovering! But, in his Holiness, he is only interested in that which is right! Which brings us to his word. His word is forever settled and he said he was the only truth and that all men, women and children are liars! And the Bible says all unrepented liars will burn in hell fire and brimestone! So God is not a free thinker! His mind is made up! And he is the same yesterday, today, and forever! So get a clue, before you try to set church doctrine, search out the word of God and find out what the truth says. God says women can be leaders, run busnesses, teach, hold jobs and vote. What they can not do is Pastor (that requires Priesthood), Evangelist, or an Apostle. Can a woman disciple someone, the answer is yes. Can a woman know the truth and help set people free, yes. That form of ministry they can do. So don't confuse yourselves with what the world wants. The church should never even consider what the world wants. We should only consider what Jesus wants, he is the Lord of the Harvest! God help the so called free thinkers to get their minds on Jesus and not on how they want to Divide up God's Word. Remember a true man of God, has no problems rightly dividing the word of truth, but a free thinker, always questions everything and comes up with worldly views!

September 17, 2007

35. Ron Hietsch says...

Peter is right! Paul's letters do contain some things that are hard to understand.

September 17, 2007

34. gail blackwell says...

The Worldwide Church of God did a very thorough 3 year Biblical study on the subject of whether or not to allow women into leadership. They have 10 study papers that are the result of this study available on their website leading to the conclusion they arrived at. Some people may be interested to read them at www.wcg.org "Women in leadership" parts 1-10

September 17, 2007

33. Dr. Terri Hart Hunter says...

I do not believe a gay or lesbian can ever be in the pulpit, that is sin and sin has no place leading others!!!!! The Bible makes that very clear in both Old and New Testaments

September 17, 2007

32. Dr. Terri Hart Hunter says...

Since I have been a woman in ministry for some 48 years now, I think I can say with some expertise that it is very difficult to minister as a woman. The prejudice is so great, to say the very least. When it comes down to most churches, it is the women who keep them going! This takes the use of many talents. We are more left-brained than often given credit for. I truely believe that the Lord is no repector of person and often uses both sexes equally. More importantly, who am I to say one or another is not called to ministry????? I would be playing God, would I not? He uses whomsoever He pleases and we should leave there, at His feet! feet.

September 17, 2007

31. R. Wayne Hagerman says...

This is unquestionably the most divisive issue currently being discussed in so many Evangelical churches, our's included. I have found an incredibly helpful article by Bishop N.T. Wright entitled "The Biblical Basis for Women's Service in the Church," in Priscilla Papers, Vol. 20, No. 4, Autumn, 2006. It has answered many of the Biblical questions you sight in your article!

September 17, 2007

30. GiNA CASEY says...

I am glad you wrote this article, Mark. I am an African American woman who is a married, the mother of 3 grown children and senior pastor of a Methodist church. Initially, I resisted the very strong calling of God on my life to preach 23-years ago because I didn’t feel like dealing with being hassled by men (or women) on this matter. I have even been challenged to “prove” that I’ve been called. (How do you do that, my brothers??) I have been denied access to pulpits, even challenged in a convenience store by a preacher who became angry when he found out I was a pastor and began poking my collar bone with his index finger, saying a word with each jab, “God-didn’t-call-no-women-preachers!!!!” For me, these discussions are reminiscent of our history of Whites using Scripture to justify slavery (we are descendants of Ham) and to prohibit blacks from preaching. The biblical examples cited in Mark’s article of women in leadership, prophesying and teaching God’s word cannot be ignored in an attempt to single out and generalize and mass apply one Pauline stance on women in the church – especially since he wrote other letters to the contrary, hailing the leadership of certain women. Personally, I was not called because there was a lack of men (or donkeys). Before I was formed, the Lord chose me. So, I’m doing my best to obey God by being faithful to his call on my life -- which has recently expanded to breaking the gender barrier in the Episcopacy of my Methodist denomination in 2008. (I guess you all will be writing about that one, too.)

September 17, 2007

29. Quinton Hammonds says...

I believe that the word of God forbids women in the role of preaching as well as pastoring. This doesn't mean that women are less than men just that a sovereign God has the right to assign roles to gender. We should stop trying to make the Kingdom of God a democracy.

September 17, 2007

28. Elizabeth Whatley says...

Good article! I am a licensed pastor and have fought that position/calling as long as I could last against God because of two reasons. First, I was raised in a strict ‘women are to NEVER teach men’, domination. I believed what I was taught about scriptures like 1Timothy and 1 Corinthians by the leaders ‘men” in the church. It always confused me why God gave me the Spiritual gifts of leadership, wisdom and teaching/preaching. Secondly I fought the calling of God because who in their right mind would want to be a pastor. If there is ANYTHING that you can do that makes you happy besides being a pastor of a church, do it! I know a lot of women pastors and they all feel the same, although I’m sure there are women that are out to prove they can do what a man can just to undermined them. Of course, there are men that are not called as well. An old pastor I knew said that some are called and some just go. He’s right! As for the verses that have been throw about in these discussions. There is a great book call “What Paul Really Said About Women” by John Temple Bristow. He does a great job explaining what was going on in the different churches Paul wrote to. If I were to write a letter to one church it would not be the same, as I would write to another, it would depend on what was going on in the church and the community. Why do we think Paul is any different? This does not take away the fact that all scripture is God breathed. What Paul wrote to Timothy is just as God breathed for him as what he wrote to the church in Galicia is God breathed for them. As for what Jeff Strite said, He has noticed where women lead…men go elsewhere. That is true with anyone that needs an excuse not to go to church. I have found that most men that leave do not go to another church. It is just their reason to not go to church. As for it undermining the teaching of the man being the head of the home. It has nothing to do with who is preaching at church. Either the man is head of his house or he is not. I am a pastor and my husband is head of our house. One has nothing to do with the other. Jeff also said it runs contrary to the church being the bride, and God being the husband. This concept has two flaws. One, God is as much female as male; he made man and woman in his image. Second, the church is not the bride of Christ. That is church folklore and found nowhere in scripture. The church is the body of Christ and if we are also the bride of Christ I think that would make Christ homosexual. However, John is shown the bride of Christ in Revelation and he is shown the New Jerusalem. Revelation 21:9-10. We need to stop putting God in a box and learn to love our neighbor as we love ourselves and love God with all our heart, mind and soul. If we did this we would not care what sex the person sharing the gospel is we would celebrate that they are sharing the gospel. Amen.

September 17, 2007

27. Danny Loesch says...

I have heard similar arguments for allowing lesbian women pastor churches. God has revealed that there is a divine order, positional authority (headship)and specific responsibility. God, Christ, Man, Woman. This is WHY Paul can claim that the husband is the head of the wife and that women are to show their submision to the men, especially in the public assembly of His church. Rebellion comes in many forms but it is still rebellion, whether it is men abdicating their role in spiritual leadership and responsibility or women usurping their submisive, supporting role or angels...

September 17, 2007

26. Debra Klein says...

WOW, I can't believe what I have read as I glanced over each comment. Although I know the question that would be foremost on everyone's mind is that I identify my gender as female, but brothers and sisters out there I don't see myself as a female pastor, I see myself as a saved vessel called by God to preach the GOOD NEWS. It is not important whether we are male, female, a child, a youth, or an adult, but what is important is that a person LISTENS AND OBEYS when God calls them for a specific work. This could be as a stay at home mom or dad, a teacher in the church or the corporate world, an elder and even a pastor. It is HIS calling and He will EQUIP whomever He wills. May I be so BOLD as to say that what I have heard above is personal viewpoints and yes with some scriptures thrown in now and then to prove the point. HOWEVER, if I really wanted to, I could find scripture to tell me eating chocolate for every meal is okay, but God warns us that we only see IN PART, so we must be VERY CAREFUL not to only pick and choose, but must look at God and His Word from the whole perspective and even then remember we are human beings living in a fallen world and even though we are saved and (hopefully) sanctified we still have a tendency to move towards what best suites our needs, not the HOLY SPIRIT. Brother Strauss I thank you for your article and your comments and to everyone who will read these and bring to light their thinking. But may I, as a person who is so grateful that there was a God who loved me so much in spite of my sin that HE gave Himself sacrificially, remind each of us, that the only TRUE POSITION is one that was exemplified by our Savior and that is as a SERVANT. Let's quit putting yokes on people's necks and say you may be good enough to save but you are not the right gender to serve. I encourage each of us to pray and ask God to examine our hearts and see if we may have lost sight of what is really important. May God enlighten us as He desires. Blessings!

September 17, 2007

25. James Schroff says...

I believe Mark Strauss gave an excellent word on this subject. I also think that weak men are the main ones who want to hold women down. The same people that don't want women heading up a church they are a part of will send that same women to be a missionary in another land where she will head up the ministry.In "Young's Literal Translation of the Bible", Romans 16:1&2," I commend to you Phebe our sister-being a ministrant of the assembly that is in Cenchrea-that ye may receive her in the Lord, as doth become saints, and may assist her in whatever matter she may have need of you-for she also became a leader of many, and of myself". This is what the Apostle Paul wrote.

September 17, 2007

24. Rev. Paul DeGuzman says...

I think what we are missing in this discussion is between leadership and the opportunity that God has given to all believers. Yes God thru Paul said that men and women are equal, I think that is in regards to our salvation, also on the opportunity of sharing the gospel of the kingdom we all have the same responsibility. But when we are talking about leadership isn’t it very clear God made adam first then eve. Gave the responsibility to name the animals to adam and not to eve. He called prophets in leadership who men and not women. He also called 12 apostles who are male and not female. Yes we need to recognize the ability that God has given female but let’s be very careful in choosing the scripture for one particular situation and disregard the gravity of the other passages. Don’t get me wrong I don’t have anything against women teaching and exercising their gifts in the church but not to be the pastor of the church. I always praise our women in the church for their cooperative effort in other areas of ministry in the church but not on the lead role of the church. We have Sunday teachers, our womens ministry, our children ministry, and others ministry of the church that women can do. I have our women speaks on the occasion of our church women’s conference… Let us not just assert our finite knowledge in interpreting the Word of God. Anyway don’t we accept the Word as the Infalliable, inerrant Word of God… God Bless

September 17, 2007

23. Mark Strauss says...

My article has been getting a bit of a buzz on my use of the word “situational” with reference to 1 Timothy, and so the editors asked me to clarify. What I mean is that every letter in the New Testament is written to a particular audience to address specific life situations. For example, Galatians was written to the churches in Galatia; Romans to the church (or house churches) in Rome; Corinthians to the church in Corinth; 1 and 2 Timothy to Timothy, etc. Not everything Paul says to these historical churches or individuals was meant as an imperative for the church of all time. This is a given among biblical scholars. For example, Paul’s command to Timothy to "use a little wine because of your stomach” (1 Tim 5:23) is not viewed as a command that all Christian must drink wine. Or Paul’s command to Timothy to bring his cloak from Troas to Rome (2 Tim. 4:13) is not viewed as an imperative for all Christians. Similarly, very few scholars would consider Paul’s command for men to lift their hands in worship, or for women not to braid their hair or wear gold jewelry or pearls to be a divine imperatives for all time (1 Tim. 2:8-9). Otherwise, we would have to check everyone’s hair and earrings as they entered church. These are cultural applications of broader moral imperatives. This is what I mean by situational. With every command in every New Testament letter, we must first determine the purpose and intention of the command in its original context. Then we must use sound hermeneutical principles to determine how it may be applied to believers of every time and culture. This is standard hermeneutics. For an excellent discussion of this issue, see Fee and Stuart, How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth, chapter 4, or Jeannine Brown, Scripture as Communication, chapters 11-12, or one of the many other standard works on hermeneutics.

September 17, 2007

22. Rick Thiessen says...

Pete C, John L: I think that you may be guilty of minimizing the very Scriptures you love to suggest that this issue is cut and dried. When you disparage the idea that some Scripture is "situational" you're denying a simple fact that all Scripture was written first to a given time and place. "Come before winter" was written by Paul into a specific time and place to a specific audience for a specific reason. It may have some lasting application for Christians in all times and all places, but what exactly is that application? It's not for us all to literally travel to Rome every December, is it? Seeing the situational (that is, the historic, linguistic, or cultural) details behind any text is just good interpretation. And sometimes, that's muddy. When Paul clearly allows women to lead and teach and prophesy (Phoebe, Pricilla, Nympha, Junia, Philips daughters, the women in Corinth etc.) then AT THE VERY LEAST, we have a NON cut and dried situation for how to handle women in the church. I mean, you can hold up 1 Tim 2:15 as the key text, but lets say I hold up Judges 4 as the ideal. Even if the weight of good scholarship falls to the complementarian side, we are beholden by the sheer breath of Biblical data (on this issue) to have charity for those who fall to the other side. Those of us who accept all Scripture as God breathed, are called by that same Scripture to "work hard... to correctly handle the word of truth" (2 Tim 2:15), because Scripture interpretation is hard work. This isn't about picking and choosing Scripture, it's about how you read one, in light of the others (I don’t sense this author, not any participant in this discussion has a desire to “disregard what the Bible says”). Let’s not be shocked to say that some Scripture DOES NOT apply to all Christians at all times and all places. We can all agree that this is true of the O.T. ceremonial laws. They have been clearly abrogated in the New Community. How can we say such a thing, when ALL Scripture is God breathed? Well, we have an interpretive grid where 1) we do not hold up one in violation of all the others, 2) the OT is read through the lenses of God’s progressive revelation, culminating in Christ, 3) we seek out the author’s intent by studying the linguistic, historical and cultural context (*situation*), 4) how have other Christians handled the text? So, did Paul intend for women to not lead or teach in Ephesus in the 1st century? I don’t think there’s any question about that. The real question is, did he intend by his comments there to prohibit women from exercising leadership or teaching in ANY church EVER? Not cut and dried.

September 17, 2007

21. Charles McDonald says...

Dr. Strauss, I would fit pretty well under your self-description. While complementarian in view, egalitarian in many practical ways. The one thing I would add to the discussion is anecdotal. You observe that you've never seen a church troubled by women with the egalitarian position. It does happen, and our fellowship experienced it. Led by a woman who had served for five years as children's minister, our small fellowship lost nine families in 1997. The presenting issue was the determination by a group of eight (four men, four women) that church elders were to be male only. This decision was reached after months of pain-staking research and discussion. Interestingly, that same group decided that there was a great deal more flexibility for the office of deacon. We currently have four female deacons, three male deacons, and three male elders who work together closely and in tremendous harmony. As a matter of transparency, My beloved wife is a successful, gifted attorney and my two children are daughters. The primary early influences in my life and faith were women as well. While men are often the problem, there are times that women are equally culpable as disturbing the unity of the body. Part of the curse of the woman may need to be considered here. The same Hebrew word is used in both Genesis 3:16 and Genesis 4:7. It's worth considering that perhaps - perhaps, I said - some of the gender tension, in particular the woman's "desire" for the man's place, is a direct result of the fall. (I will now discreetly disappear into an evangelical witness protection program!)

September 17, 2007

20. Gregory Hogan says...

Also, remember Philip, one of the original male deacons had 4 daughters that prophesied in Acts 21:8-9. Paul was a guest at his house, and it didn't seem to bother him then.

September 17, 2007

19. Sandy Stiles says...

It is so interesting to me the accusations being made of picking and choosing scriptures. Aren't those accusations meant for you as well? The Pharisees used the laws against Jesus reguarding the Sabbath. Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus. The list goes on of course. Was it wrong for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath? Of course not, He is the Son of God and can do whatever He pleases. Jesus knew all scriptures in context and could not be tricked because of His wisdom in the very scriptures they used against Him. If you look at ALL scripture not just the parts you like, you cannot ignore that God used women in leadership positions when He wanted to. Paul said he would have it that women wouldn't teach, but he also said he wished men wouldn't marry (1 Cor 7:1) I haven't seen any articles addressing that issue. He (Paul) made exceptions to his own writings by allowing women in the ministry as written in the article above. Whether Paul was expressing a culteral problem, an opinion or it is "God breathed"(I believe all scripture is God Breathed" doesn't change the fact that God can use whomever He chooses whenever He chooses. Don't blow off the fact that women had leadership roles, and I won't blow off the fact that Paul wrote so strongly against women teaching men. Let's just take in ALL scripture, in context so that Satan doesn't have a foothold against us. I think it is awesome that we as the Body of Christ can disagree and still serve the same God, with the same Spirit! God bless!

September 17, 2007

18. Gregory Hogan says...

Four years ago I sought out a denomination that does not see a gender distinction in ordination. So I serve with other pastors that are female, eventhough the vast majority of our pastors are male. I came to the conclusion that there is no gender distinction in the ideal church (not home)was the realization that Scripture contradicts itself if we insist on verses such as 1 Timothy 4:12 have a hard and literal application to all churches, then we conflict with 1 Corinthians 11:4-5. In this passage what the men are doing in the church in v. 4 (praying and propheseying) the women are doing the same in v. 5, except there they have to respect the issue of a head covering (hair?) The ideal that the New Testament theology is leading us all to is Galatians 3:28 where there is no difference among the members of the Church of Jesus Christ. In Gal. Paul specifically uses the language of Genesis when he says there is no longer distinctions between Male and Female, he uses "or" in the other comparisions. If a woman can prophesy in Corinth but has to remain silent in Ephesus, the only conclusion is there are cultural applications in these passages.

September 17, 2007

17. Jeff Strite says...

In my ministry I've noticed a few things. First, even tho' men are the Elders, Deacons and preachers, the women have not been shackled or held back in being able to minister. Women have simply not been in the leadership positions. Secondly, I've noticed that when women lead... men go elsewhere. Strong churches have male leadership. One of the basic theological problems I have with women in the Eldership or pulpit is that it undermines the basic teaching of the men being the head of the home. It also runs contrary to the church being the bride, and God (male figure here) being the husband. When women lead, that concept is turned on its head.

September 17, 2007

16. William Mouser says...

Those who call Mark Strauss a closet-egalitarian are closer to the truth than Strauss himself! Every apologetic for egalitarians I've ever read plead the things Strauss pleads here -- Deborah, Priscilla, situational interpretation of the Pastorals, fearfulness that women will feel left out if we don't make them elders, and all the rest. What, in fact, does Strauss' "complementarianism" amount to? Indeed, "complementarian" is a cop-out, a question begging label if there ever were one. No one denies the complementary nature of the sexes. What's at issue is this -- how do the sexes relate to one another in a complementary fashion? Patriarchalists are complementarians; egalitarians are also complementarians. They disagree very much as to how it happens that the sexes complement one another.

September 17, 2007

15. Mircea Detesan says...

I was looking forward for something like this edited article in a fresh manner. That’s why I do enjoy a lot not only the article which is great, but also the commentaries up to this moment. I’m a Pastor myself in a church and denomination in Romania, where there is out of acceptance for a woman to be considered as potential Pastor of the church. As for leadership roles of women in our churches, there is a clear growing tendency of accepting such a role in more and more churches. We have a Women’s Ministry and board of women in our own church too. The great job they do is out of being possible to be expressed. Since I brought in existence this ministry in our church, about ten years ago, we see a lot of encouragement of our congregation and a use of many different gifts of the Spirit that resides in women. It is very clear to me how in a wrong way of understanding the role of women in the church for so many years, a great potential for the ministry was misused or avoided in the past in our country. But in the same time I see that there is a tendency now in some places where women do want to be “top leader” or pastor. As long as there is a man that is well qualified for it, to us it seems as being very clear the concept in the Bible of the man who should be in that position. The few examples in the Bible where women were used for top leadership positions for a short time were just some other ways of enforcing the rule that that position is not to be of a woman. In other way I should suggest it like this: Any woman should be under the authority of a man (either her husband/father or her pastor). In this way there is a respect of the order brought in existence by our God we serve. That doesn’t mean any woman is of a smaller value than any man at all (including the pastor) but it means she should be protected.

September 17, 2007

14. Pete Cassidy says...

We are moving towards a complete disregard to what the Bible says about spiritual leadership in the church. This leads to a real problem and will no doubt cause further problems in the future. When we pick and choose which parts of the scripture we wish to apply and then call it "situational", we are in deep trouble in the interpretation in the Bible. Why don't we simply call children as pastors? Or gays and lesbians as many demoninations have done? If we are not going to use the teachings of the Bible in regard to leadership, then let's just not use it for any other aspects of the administering the affairs of the church.

September 17, 2007

13. Mack Pullen says...

Mark, Thanks for an excellent article. It is interesting how people will go to seed on 1 Timothy and ignore other scriptures. I wonder if they think all the women mentioned just did "covered dish dinners." Again Mark, thanks!

September 17, 2007

12. Jonathan McKee says...

I also enjoyed Mark's article... but I would love to hear someone address John Lehenbauer's comment/response. This is a very typical response I hear not only concerning this issue, but in the issue of homosexuality, etc. You've heard it: "How can we say one part of this passage is situational/cultural, but other parts (all scripture is God breathed) resound as true?"

September 17, 2007

11. David Perkins says...

Funny thing, I've just written a blog on mychurch.org about inclusiveness in the church with the basic premise that we as members and the church itself are not complete without including all and that includes women in leadership roles. You said "Men naturally gravitate more toward assertive leadership roles, while women tend toward more supportive and nurturing ones" and perhaps that is true (I'm not a physcologist, just a lay-preacher.) But Jesus was both fully human and fully God AND that means he was complete with assertive leadership and supportive and nurturing characteristics. Although I study the Bible so as to know God better, I never want to get bogged down in the "legalism" of the Bible and lose sight of the love of God. I try to follow Christ. While I love Paul, I look to Christ and his deeds and words. Isn't it significant that Jesus called the two Marys to be the first evangelists to announce his resurrection? As you say, God could use any means to voice his thoughts but he used two women. So, to me, I couldn't care less who is teaching and preaching, it is what is taught and preached that is important. Love David

September 17, 2007

10. James Fields says...

Very well written article. Is there mention of any woman being a pastor in the NT? NO. Who carried the first gospel message of the resurrrection? It seems to me that God uses whomever is available. He used women to carry the first resurrection message because the men were hiding! They are still hiding in a lot of churches and if the women didn't become involved in leadership positions many churches would close the doors. When I accepted my present pastorate, the board consisted of three women and the congregation was 12 poeple with 2 men. Why? There were NO men members willing to attend church regularly and serve on the board. Since I arrived one board member moved and we elected a man. If it hadn't been for the women this church would have closed down, not because they sought leadership positions but because the men are hiding! Jim Fields

September 17, 2007

9. Donald Barber says...

I have to agree with Mr. Martin. While it is true that God has used women in the church, I believe they have been exceptions by virtue of the men refusing to step up to the plate and lead. I believe that women are uniquely gifted by God for teaching and nurturing. In my estimation, it is a bit of a stretch to use "situation ethics", so to speak, to lessen the clear-cut teaching of scripture. If "all" or any of the New Testament letters are only situational, as stated by Dr. Strauss, and can only be held to be specific to the original hearers, I am left only to gleen generalized truths which are highly subject to many different interpretations and applications. I believe that the teaching of scripture transcends time, that it is eternal, that it is inerrant, and that mankind must conform his world around him to its clear teaching, not conform the teaching of the Word to new ways of thinking. I believe Paul was very clear when stating, "As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches" (1 Cor. 14:33b-34). What all does Paul mean here, and how is it only "situation specific"? Again, Paul instructs, "I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man" (1 Tim. 2:12). It seems clear to me Paul's teaching is to be taken universally. Dr. Strauss goes on to argue "If Paul's statements here were absolute, why would we find apparent exceptions elsewhere in the New Testament, and especially throughout history?" Basing an interpretation on "apparent exceptions" is extremely weak. Also, I am entirely convinced that history, if we are to use the arguement, is overwhelmingly in the camp of male leadership, especially when it comes to the Undershepherd of the Church. And where is the single instance in the New Testament where a woman is the Pastor? There will alwys be "apparent exceptions", and God can and does use those who are available and willing, but the view presented in this article stands on shaky ground at best. The historical/grammatical interpretation of scripture has and will stand the test of scrutiny and always results in the clear teaching of biblical truth. I have to respectfully disagree with Dr. Strauss.

September 17, 2007

8. John Lehenbauer says...

Mark, Have you read what you've written? "First Timothy, like all New Testament letters, is situational????" Compare this to 2 Timothy 3:16, "All Scripture is God-breathed . . ." There are others who who believe Scripture is situational. Eventually, nearly all those groups have opened the door to gay, lesbian, and group marriage pastors. Any why not, if Scripture is truly situational.

September 17, 2007

7. Carole Steinberg says...

As a woman who has been given the gift of preaching and teaching it has been a long road. My husband's job forces us to relocate every 2 to 3 years and we have had to find a new church home during each move. We have been in several churches where I am allowed to use my gifts, however we are currently in a church that will not allow women to preach or even teach adult classes or hold any leadership position. This current situation has been a real time of growth spiritually. I have used this time for more study and writing while taking teaching and speaking opportunities outside of our church. I feel that God will open the door in his time and that I perhaps am there as a reminder to keep the idea near the surface. I do sometimes get frustrated to the point that I feel the rocks will cry out. But I trust that God would not have wired me this way if it wasn't going to work out for his Glory in the end. I enjoyed the article.

September 17, 2007

6. Michael Martin says...

The Bible commands us to "Rightly divide the Word of Truth" (2 Tim. 2:15). In Galatians 3:23 the Apostle Paul is teaching on salvation br Grace apart from works. In this case, there is no difference between men and women. But, in 1 Timothy 2:11-3:2 the Apostle Paul is talking about Pastoral Leadership. This is also repeated in 1 Corinthians 14:29-35. But, again the passage is referring to leadership. When it comes to salvation, worship, fellowship with God, all are equal and have equal part in the Church. When it comes to teaching women and small children women have tremendous influence in teh Church. But, when it comes to Pastoral office, GOD IS VERY CLEAR. We cannot pick and choose which verses of the Bible to take litterally, and which to brush aside. It is either ALL God's Word, or not God's Word at all.

September 17, 2007

5. Michael Washburn says...

This is a great article. There are definitely differences between men and women which God certainly intended. But that does not mean that He does not use both men and women in leadership positions. The fact is God has used both women and men in the scriptural record and in church history. How can we argue with that. I really like the balance with which this article was written. Thanks

September 17, 2007

4. Greg Johnson says...

Very well written! This is a timely issue for me brother. I just had three couples leave our new church plant because we have women in leadership positions, namely my wife who is co-founder and has a license to preach credential. The ironic part is that these three couples came to our church plant for 16 months knowing that my wife was credentialed and co-founder of the church. They did not get upset until I went 2500 miles back east to provide bedside care to my aging father for ten days and my wife took care of everything in my absence including speaking. I don’t know what I would have done without her. What were they thinking? On another note, there seems to be much confusion on this issue even within denominations. Our new church plant is interdenominational, but I was a part of a prominent denomination for 14 years that would credential women for ministry and allow them to pastor their churches, but leave it up to the local pastor as to whether women would be allowed to serve on the board of deacons. I allowed women to serve on the board where I pastor, but 90% of the pastors within this denomination would not allow it. So we have a denomination that will allow women pastors, but not necessarily allow them to sit on the board of deacons. Hum. It makes one wonder if they just credentialed them to get their annual renewal fee? On yet another note, I was on staff for a pastor of a very large and prominent church in this denomination. A question came up at an annual business meeting of the membership as to why women were not allowed on the board. He told the membership that he would put a committee together to come up with a recommendation for the next annual business meeting. Afterward, he plainly voiced to his board his disapproval of women sitting on the board and then put together a committee of current board members with me (one of his paid staff) chairing the committee. The intention was to dismiss the notion of women sitting on the board with the blame being placed upon the committee instead of him. Needless to say, I resigned my position as this was just one of many deceptive tactics that was used. God help us. There’s much confusion in the church on this subject and there are many behind our pulpits preaching the love of Christ with discriminatory hearts. It just adds to the confusion. Thanks for your article that will generate much needed thought and conversation. gaj

September 17, 2007

3. Johnnie Travis says...

I whole heartily agree with this assesment! It would seem to me that Paul was addressing a particuler situation in a particular Church. To deny a Woman a place of leadership in any Church would be a denial of Christ's service to, and for the same Church. Even though we think we are set apart as ministers,"being Male" does not make us right. I have had both male and female teachers, from kindergarten through college,and I learned from both! If anyone has a different perspective than mine, I need to listen whether I agree or not, I still may learn something. Plus, I believe Women impart a particular sence of caring more like Christ intended. Men teach, Women teach with tenderness, "as to a little child". Ministry or teaching is not about being male or female, it is about service, being called and heeding that call and responding appropriatly. Many are called few are chosen, God chooses whom he will, who then are we to deny whom God has called, and how do we know if "we" aren't listening. May God lead us in his peace and to his Glory. AMEN

September 17, 2007

2. Danilo Garcia says...

Very balanced in articulating the should be role of women in the church. I am a complimentarian but if a woman has the gift to exercise and it was acknowledged by church people and moreso prompted by the Holy Spirit, a woman can exercise equal leadership in the church provided that a man takes the leadership role in as far as shepherding the flock of God.

September 17, 2007

1. Dr. Ezra Aniebue says...

Great article indeed! In the New Testament, when GOD decided to enter into the world as a man, HE sent HIS Angel to a woman. When you search the New Testament, you will never find a single instance where JESUS treated any woman as a second class citizen (The Canaanite woman issue was a teaching point). Before JESUS was crucified, a woman prepared HIM for burial. When JESUS resurrected from the dead, it was a woman who saw HIM first. Every man is born into the world by a woman, but the same man that was born by a woman is the head of the woman, but the man who is the head of the woman is also under GOD who is the HEAD of CHRIST WHO in turn is the HEAD of the man.So a man is a real man if CHRIST, the WORD of GOD is HIS head. A man therefore is a male who puts the WORD of GOD above his opinion, desires, or suppositions.... Well, should a woman be a pastor? The answer is simple: If GOD called her to pastor and the anointing is proven yes! Should a woman be a pastor in order to seek equality with men? The answer is no. Are there Bible verses to say that a woman should not be a pastor when GOD said that she should, the answer is no. Theological problems arise on this issue when people follow the letter of the WORD without yielding to the SPIRIT of the WORD. Thanks for a great writing Mark!