Mark Baker

commented on Mar 11, 2013

"What ever your word is for it..."???? This is like, "What ever your truth is for it"! The "Eucharist" is NOT "communion"! It is a hyper-heretical and blasphemous notion that perverts Scripture and Jesus. If you don't know the difference, then why should anyone listen to you?

Michael James Monaghan

commented on Mar 11, 2013

Mark could you explain your reticence to Glenn Packiam's claims about 'the Eucharist' ? I can only assume Glenn likes ceremony and ritual rather than preaching . I haven't watched the video . But your forthright comments and distaste about his notions may find me likely to agree with you !

Anonymous

commented on Mar 11, 2013

@ Mark Baker, AMEN!!!. Also "Eucharist" is a name commonly applied to the Roman Catholic mass. This video starts off with an almost catholic mass not a local church Lord's Table. As a true believer I want to draw a distinction and stay far away from Rome.

Mary Freeman

commented on Mar 11, 2013

The Lord's Supper is a feast celebrations thanking and praising Jesus for what He did on the cross for us. HIs Supper was never meant to be offered asf an unbloddy sacrifice.

Bill Williams

commented on Mar 11, 2013

@Michael, it's a two-and-a-half minute video. I know Mark's comment only takes about fifteen seconds to read, but is it really that hard for you to watch the video and make up your own mind, rather than having Mark tell you what to believe? Seriously, people, is it so hard for intelligent, thinking adults to take the time to listen to someone before evaluating their position? Is our attention span really that short that it cannot be sustained for just under three minutes??

Michael James Monaghan

commented on Mar 12, 2013

Bill (Williams) the reason I didn't watch the video was partly because my computer wont let me . But I doubt if I would want to watch it by the description of why the video was made . It seems though my misgivings about Glen and the doctrine he espouses concurred with others comments . What does Glenn mean by 'the feasting table' and why should it transcend preaching ?. As I didn't view the video was Glenn making odd ceremonial movements around the table like a romanist priest perhaps Glenn was wearing ceremonial vestments . Something upset those who viewed ?.

Bill Williams

commented on Mar 12, 2013

@Michael, if your computer didn't let you watch the video, fine. If you just didn't want to watch the video, fine. But if these things are so, and from what I understood from you they are so, then you really have no credibility offering any sort of critique as to the contents, and to do so based solely on second-hand comments is intellectually dishonest. If you want to give an opinion, find a way to watch the video. Otherwise, your opinion means absolutely nothing. "Something upset those who viewed." Yes, and because THEY viewed the video, they have a right to comment. But they have no obligation to "explain" to you their reaction to a video that takes less than three minutes to watch.

Mark Baker

commented on Mar 13, 2013

"The Eucharist" (TE) could not be further from "communion." TE is of Catholic "tradition" [those people who have placed a curse ("anathema") on those of us who believe that we are saved by grace and faith alone) and TE is taught to be the LITERAL blood and flesh of Jesus ... and that we are TO LITERALLY EAT Jesus (or else we will not be saved). Also, Jesus must die (over and over), that His sacrifice on the cross is NOT ENOUGH. Also, Catholic priests are to conjure up the flesh and blood of Jesus on a daily basis. TE is not merely done "in remembrance" of Jesus and what He did, etc, ... TE is REQUIRED for salvation! There are many others errant teachings about TE, but for a "Christian leader" to casually include this as credible is truly INcredible!

Mark Baker

commented on Mar 13, 2013

BTW, "spiritual formation" may sound like it means "discipleship" but it is a very intentional blurring of this vital area (by some who use it, but not all). It is intentionally ambiguous and mystical (notice this concept of "mystery" /mystical in the title). It intentionally moves us from the OBJECTIVE and unchanging Word of God to the subjective, mystical, feelings-based, experiential-based foundation and authority for what is right and how to know God and the truth. "Spiritual formation" "disciplines" often include VERY mystical "techniques" like "breath prayers," "contemplative prayer," "Lectio Divina," etc. These are gaining power and popularity among leaders in the church and have led them to blur the lines, embrace other religions/ideologies/practices, and to seek "ecumenism." Hmmm, this sounds kind of like our author!

Mark Baker

commented on Mar 13, 2013

Of course, MJM, you know there will always be those who try to minimize those who point out these falsehoods rather than admitting what is going on and warning others. Discernment is dead (in our society, and even in the church). I am glad you seem to be exercising your discernment, keep it up! But don't get bogged down by those who defend error or defend false teachings. They have a different agenda.

Michael James Monaghan

commented on Mar 13, 2013

Mark I was thinking about objective truth v subjective experience too , and i'm aware of the influence of the buddhist/catholic breath and contemplative prayers and 'retreats' said to be infiltrating the churches .. So yes , I applaud your drawing these things to our attention .We need to be alerted and reminded regularly . As regards those who espouse and teach these so called 'spiritual formation techniques , the words of Jesus says , If the blind lead the blind both shall fall into the ditch . Let us remain sola scriptura ?.

Bill Williams

commented on Mar 13, 2013

@Michael and Mark, I agree one hundred percent about the need to exercise discernment. But Michael, do not assume that you are practicing discernment just because you happen to agree with Mark about the Eucharist or other issues. True discernment involves listening to a person's position, understanding that position in that person's own terms, and then evaluating that position based on Scripture. I've seen too many Christians who are too lazy to do the work of real discernment; and instead they resort to short cuts like listening to what OTHERS say about someone's position (usually they listen to someone with whom they already agree), or scanning a person's position for certain "code words" (eg. "spiritual formation") and importing their own meaning into these words rather than letting the speaker define his own terms. Either way, no real discernment is happening; and the sad thing is that one has deceived oneself into thinking that it is. Forgive me for my passion on this, but this is VITALLY important. We're talking about the Word of God. We're talking about discerning truth in a world where error is all around us. There is no room for laziness in the discernment of God's objective Truth. This work merits our very best mental efforts! So, I want to join with Mark in encouraging you to exercise true discernment. He is right in counseling us not to get bogged down by those who defend error or defend false teachings. And I would like to add that you also not depend on someone else to tell you what to think. God has given you an incredible mind, as well as the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth. These are just the remarks of an old teacher whose greatest joy has been watching young men and women learn how to think and discern for themselves. The world needs much more Christians who are not afraid to think hard! God's blessing to you and your ministry!

Mark Baker

commented on Mar 13, 2013

MJM, yes, we all have feelings/experiences, but they do not represent objective truth (not to mention, they are very misleading). Where does the vast majority of deception occur ... in the subjective or objective arenas? Where would the Deceiver, and deceivers, have more success ... in the subjective or objective. Notice the irony of many Christians going BACK to Catholicism and its man-made "tradition" (which they deemed "equal" with Scripture in authority ...and which Jesus repeatedly and resoundingly condemned) and away from the superlative authority of the objective Scriptures. What was that whole "reformation" thing about? And why were so many people imprisoned, tortured, and murdered [e.g. burned at the stake] for printing, giving, or owning a Bible? All so that we will "unify" with a false gospel (of works ... and not a gospel of the sufficiency of Jesus and HIS work and grace) and false superlative authority (which the CC claims for themselves)?

Michael James Monaghan

commented on Mar 13, 2013

It doesn't look as though Glenn Packiam has won any fans for his video of his version of the last supper (No 3 says almost like a Mass) or for his assertion that somehow for him it's better than preaching . I don't think the discussion can go any further as we have all made our point ?.

Bill Williams

commented on Mar 13, 2013

@Michael, see, if you had seen the video, you would've known that nowhere in the video is the assertion made that the Eucharist is better than preaching. That ideas is just not there, and this is a perfect example of what happens when someone comments on something that they know nothing about.

Michael James Monaghan

commented on Mar 14, 2013

PS- Bill . I didn't view the video . But I read Glenn's words , or at least a commentators words . '...... there is one aspect of worship that transcends music or PREACHING : the feasting table '. I don't think Glenn makes out a case for the primacy of preaching , but for ritual and ceremony ?.

Mark Baker

commented on Mar 14, 2013

Hey MJM, are you aware of the "emerging" or "emergent" church? I think that is what this essentially is. It is a trendy movement to emphasize the experiential and feelings and what the culture thinks and how they live over Scripture (which, they say, doesn't appeal to the "postmodern" crowd ... so they "NEED" to come up with new ways and "less judgmental" [read: discerning] ways.) My wife termed this years ago as the "merging" church because they subtly and overtly "merge" with other religions and ideologies. In other words, they are very liberal and ecumenical.