Lawrence Webb

commented on Jul 4, 2015

In my mind, 13 of the 15 quotes are worthy thoughts, and 13 out of 15 turns out to be 86 percent. But the quotes by Ronald Reagan and Patrick Henry are off base. The nation was NOT founded by Christians. The founding fathers were more deist than Christian. Numerically, we are a Christian nation, but we have never been officially Christian. The Constitution provided a religiously neutral nation, not a secular one and not a Christian one. Consider the first 16 words of the first amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and the last 20 words of Article 6, Section 3: ?no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.?

Chris Henderson

commented on Jul 4, 2015

I'm sorry Lawrence but please don't fall into the revisionist history being pushed upon our society. You said that you thought the quote by Patrick Henry was "off base" yet Henry can be considered one of the founding fathers. John Adams is often called a deist because of a phrase taken out of context in a letter he wrote to Jefferson yet Adams (in 1813) wrote "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature." Adams also wrote (in 1816) "Jesus is benevolence personified, an example for all men. . . . The Christian religion, in its primitive purity and simplicity, I have entertained for more than sixty years. It is the religion of reason, equity, and love; it is the religion of the head and the heart." Much has been said about Jefferson's "Bible" the he constructed but in a letter to Charles Thomson in 1816, he wrote "A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." Washington is credited for using a lot of deist terms to refer to God but when he died he was a member of the Protestant Episcopal Church and had attended the same congregation for over 25 years. His adopted daughter, Nelly Custis-Lewis, wrote "I never witnessed his private devotions. I never inquired about them. I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He was not one of those who act or pray, ?that they may be seen of men?. He communed with his God in secret." Hamilton, John Jay, Madison...were all professed Christians.

Jeffery Anselmi

commented on Jul 1, 2021

Amen

Lawrence Webb

commented on Jul 4, 2015

I acknowledge your corrections about the fathers, but I do not concede my basic point about the provisions in the Constitution for a religiously neutral nation, rather than either a secular or Christian nation. These exclude any possibility of establishing Christianity as the religion of the nation. There is no mention of God or of Jesus Christ, the One to whom I have entrusted my life for seventy years. This is by design from these men who seem to owe more to the Enlightenment than to the Bible in founding this nation.

Chris Henderson

commented on Jul 4, 2015

Your are exactly correct about the Constitution. The founding fathers were wary of a state religion and careful to separate Christianity from denominational establishments. For instance, Jefferson understood that Christianity is not about ceremony, creeds, and confessionals. These are man-made by-products of religion. They wisely gave us the freedom to choose (or to abandon) these institutions. As far as this country being a "Christian" nation...it never has been yet the vary fabric of our system of laws are based on documents and concepts which are Christian influenced. The Declaration Independence, for instance, is heavily influenced by Christian thought; not because of the references to a "Creator" but because of the structure of the moral argument put forth to justify separation from England. I agree with you that these men were products of the Enlightenment. However, the Enlightenment was not just about the rise of humanistic thought. During the Enlightenment, people found a renewed sense of questioning the "do as I say" vise like control of the established religious institutions. Order and reason became tools to examine established doctrine. But this does not mean Enlightened people were not fundamental Christians. Many many Enlightened scholars used their knowledge of science, mathematics, and law to deepen their faith in Christianity (Newton, Euler, Bacon...). Jefferson would certainly fit into this category. Though Jefferson drew from the thoughts of others, like John Locke, the idea of justice, equality, and liberty are rooted in the moral teachings found in the New Testament. I, myself, hold several degrees in mathematics (and a degree in history). I have written several papers in mathematics and mathematical philosophy none of which mention God, the Bible, or Christianity. Yet the absence of these words does not mean that my Christian beliefs does not influence my writing. The absence of the words God or the Bible does not mean that the propositions found in the Constitution are not influenced by Christian thought.

D. Long

commented on Jul 4, 2015

The Pilgrims found a way to harmonize civil and religious freedom, but at great cost. Today our leaders are pitting civil liberty against religious freedom. The only way back to a place of honor and integrity in the world appears to be through another round of ?losses, sacrifices and suffering.? God bless Kirk Cameron (see "Monumental: In Search of America's National Treasure") and all the brave who stand for the faith of our fathers.

Pete Querin

commented on Jul 3, 2021

Boy that's pretty heady stuff there guys, may I just say that the founding fathers got it right. It was never about creating a Christian society. The early state of our nation was predominantly Christian already. But the founders didn't want to impose their beliefs on others, they simply recognized the principles of Christianity as the greatest framework for a cooperative healthy working society, which is why Thomas Jefferson said, "The bible is the cornerstone of liberty."